Tracy Smith, Head Coach of Michigan sits down to talk to Pat Casey, Former Head Coach, Oregon State University.
Tracy Smith:
So, you know, you and I got to know each other through the competition piece. And then I, and I love how our friendship has evolved over time. And so like just the more that I get to know you, I see the parallels kind of in our career. And what I love about doing these interviews is how much I learn about people. So what I wanna know is tell me about the pat Casey and rising and the journey to, you know, everybody knows about your three national championships and all that stuff, but like, how did it happen? That’s what I wanna know.
Pat Casey:
Well, first of all, you know, nothing happens without being blessed to have the opportunity. So, you know, certainly was given that opportunity in 1988 by George Fox college. And it was kind of funny. I just got done playing eight years with minor league baseball and had, had my fill of baseball. And
Tracy Smith:
Was it, did you say fail or feel,
Pat Casey:
Feel both? You know what I mean? I was I was with the twin. I was in the coast league with the twins and, and I got released in the middle of the year and the Mariners wanted to re-sign me, but I, I did not want to go to Chatanooga for 10 days without a guarantee that I was gonna be on the big league, you know, be invited to big league camp. And so I got a call from small college George Fox college in the hometown I was from who had really never had any type of baseball success or had any emphasis on the program. So I really had no interest in doing it.
Tracy Smith:
And I gotta admit, buddy, I’d never heard of that until I met you. I had no idea there wasn’t George.
Pat Casey:
The only reason I knew about it’s cuz I lived in the town that existed in and they only had one thing going for ’em. Well, they, they were okay in track, but basketball was something that they were pretty good in.
Tracy Smith:
And so what’s the size, like what, like, like what’s the size of the school
Pat Casey:
At the time, at the time they were in, when I was growing up, they were in AI and they were about 300 kids and then they got to 600 kids and you know, 900. And I think when I was there as a coach, they probably were around that eight or 900 kids. And then now they’re up around 2000, they become a division three school. And but anyway, I, I, I didn’t have any interest in coaching or staying in baseball and the ad who was the coach and, and he had so many hats. He was the ad, he was the baseball coach. He was the head of international students. And so he just had too much and just thought that I might be interested in, he kind of repeatedly called me until I finally relented and went and met with the president and he talked on it.
And so I took that job and you know, let’s say July 10th or 12th or whatever, and called my best friend who was played baseball with me and said, Hey, you doing anything? He said, yeah, I just got my appraiser’s license. I said, you making any money? He said, no. I said, perfect. I got a job. You’re not gonna make any, any money either. You know, we’re gonna coach together. So we started that journey together, George Fox in 88. And I had 17 guys on my first club and six of ’em were from Puerto Rico. And what really? Yeah, because this, like I said, the coach before me, the ad was they had international students. So he figured if I’m gonna go to another area to recruit students, let’s go to someplace where they can play baseball, you know, and they were, they were pretty good.
You know, I had a couple guys that were really pretty good and had a switch, hit her, named Miguel Rivera and stayed in touch with him. And anyway, I just instantly enjoyed it. I enjoyed the competition. I enjoyed the just being in the dugout and in a different perspective of baseball. And so I, I, I, we had no field. Basically. We built a field and built a bat cage, did all the stuff anybody would really do at a small place like that. And we got to, you know, we were, we were competing, you know, we played George, we played Oregon state in Washington, in Washington state in the same year in beat Washington and Oregon state and and Lewis Clark state. So, I mean, we were, we were feeling like we were pretty good. The problem was that I continued to make $3,000 a year with three kids and a wife that thought maybe I needed to go ahead and grow up. And
Tracy Smith:
So thousand that’s a thousand year for each kid, man.
Pat Casey:
Exactly, exactly. And Northco still, wasn’t my fishing guy. He still wasn’t making anything other than half of my money from stopping and having a good time, you know? So anyway, just thought it was time. I had a real estate license and I wasn’t doing any of that really. Cuz I enjoyed the coaching piece so much, but thought it was time that probably, you know, I moved to a different arena and I got a call from a guy named Jack Rainey who was the commissioner of the Northern division of the pack 10 at the time. I don’t know whether it was PAC 10 or, but they were the Northern changed
Tracy Smith:
So many times, right?
Pat Casey:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We just keep adding teams, you know? So anyway, he asked me if I would, why I didn’t apply for the job at Oregon state. And I just said, well, I, I, I know their assistant he’s been there for a while, was a good dude. I heard they’re gonna hire him. He said, no man, you should apply. So I drove down there, turned in my application and the gal says, I don’t even think the job’s open. And so I thought, perfect. And so anyway three or four weeks later I got interview, got the job at Oregon state or I would say around August 5th and walked into my office and, and well I didn’t really walk into my office because I went over to get some keys. The first day I was there and the lady asked me what I would need keys for. And I said, well, I’m a new baseball coach. And she said, oh, okay, well let me check. So nobody, nobody, nobody really knew who I was. You know? So it was kinda a funny deal, but
Tracy Smith:
Well, so, so on like, so I’m back in the Midwest and then for me, this is just me personally, like you on the radar when we, we competed against each other when I was coaching Indiana and still again, not knowing your story. And then, and I remember sitting down one time when I was at ASU, cuz I was just curious cuz what everyone sees said, well, what have you done for me lately? So you’ve won, you know, the three national championships, which well documented, but like for you on that journey of building. Cause I always talk about like the process and how hard this process is, building culture and all that stuff. When did you feel like, Hey man, we’ve, we’ve arrived. Maybe that’s not the right word, but like you understand what I’m saying? Like you take the job, you build it. It wasn’t just Oregon state out of the shoot. Like you built that thing. So how many years did it take you to do that?
Pat Casey:
Well, you know when I, when I first got there due to the fact that you were north and a south, your competition was mostly in the north, it was Goza and Portland and Portland state had baseball at the time. Oregon did not Washington Washington state. And so we were, we were relatively competitive. The first I got there in 95, in 97 and 98, we should have played in a, in a regional, no question. We were really, really good in 98. The south gave us the opportunity to play them, to help with the RPI because they wanted to keep us out of a conference as a whole, which I totally understand, you know, I’m living in Phoenix and Palo Alto and I gotta go to covais or Pullman, you know, and so well
Tracy Smith:
That, that’s why I want you to only visit me now. So exactly,
Pat Casey:
Exactly. That’s why you got a t-shirt on and I got a jacket on, right,
Tracy Smith:
Exactly.
Pat Casey:
<Laugh> so in 98 we played Washington or we played in the south and they didn’t count on your record. They just counted on your conference record just on your overall record. So we played Arizona. They were 10th in the country that year and we swept them. We played UCLA and we swept ’em. We went to USC, one, one of three and they won the national championship. And we lost in the last state of Washington who won the north and we didn’t get to go to a regional. And so, you know, I thought that we were very competitive from the beginning. The gentleman before me coach Riley did a really good job. They just didn’t. There was no vision at Oregon state from an administrative standpoint at that time that, Hey, other than going down to central California and playing the spring break deal that we’re ever gonna do anything.
And I, the very first thing I remember saying is that I expect us to compete regionally in the nationally. I, I expect that or I wouldn’t have come here. And I know that sounds bold, but it, it’s what I believed in. And I started really pushing about 97 toward just to be a conference. That’s why they did that. And then finally, 99, matter of fact, bless his soul. Mike Gillespie stood up in the meeting and goes, you know, it’s probably not good for USC, but it’s good for our conference and I’m gonna support this. So we got the con, we got the presidents and the, a ADSS behind us in, in 99, we became a full conference and you know, I got my brains beat out and I remember coming back on the plane from Stanford, getting beat 22 to four and on last day and they had mercy rule. And so they only bated six times. So we, we, we rounded it out pretty good there, we gave up almost four almost, you know, what was that about seven meaning, you know? And yeah, anyway I thought maybe I was wrong, man. Maybe, you know, shoot, man, did I screw this thing out?
Tracy Smith:
Stay up here, man, <laugh> outta the way.
Pat Casey:
So one of the coaches said to me at the time he said case, man, I, I love the, that you’re into this. And, but man, you know, you guys don’t have the facility, you don’t have the money. You, you don’t have the weather, how you gonna compete? You know, you’re talking about Arizona state stand for USC, UCLA back to back to back. And so part of me doubted myself a little bit maybe in that 99 season and wasn’t the right thing. And then I, I just said, Hey man, you know, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta get into what we got into this for and get back to grinding and, and who we are. And basically the, the same principles that I coached with at George Fox, the beliefs I had. And I did a poor job coaching in 99. You know, we got, we got, we got moved around pretty good that year, the first year in the south.
And so you know, it was just you know, like anything, I just don’t think you can exist beyond your belief system. In other words, I, I don’t think anybody that gets into my opinion into anything, whether you’re running a company or a team or anything else that doesn’t have a belief that they can reach a certain level. They’re probably never gonna believe in that. And then the importance of understanding how important the little things are really what are the big things, because it’s, you know, the big things are accumulation of every little things. So we had certain things that we believed in at Oregon state that I thought made a difference. And for other people they may not mean mean anything
Tracy Smith:
Would, those were those things was, I actually wrote down tie to your heart IU basketball, but were those little things, the same things that were important or the same little things that when you started your career?
Pat Casey:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, I, I think the first thing is, you know, you know, we talk about strategies and we’ve talk about plans and we talk about how to, how to execute strategy and execute plans. But what really matters is who’s executing the plan and who, who, who created, you know, who created the plan. And if you can’t get everybody to commit 100% to oneness of purpose for a common goal, it doesn’t matter what you do. You’re not, you’re not, not gonna, you might win short term, but I don’t know if you’ll ever win long term. When you have individuals that say that what we do together is more important than what I do individually. It’s amazing what they can do because they forget about themselves. And, you know, that’s, I, I, I think if I would hope that if somebody went through and said, Hey, we played Oregon state over a three or four or five or 10 year period, they would have something to say about something unique about our togetherness or our, our unity as a team. You know, I, I would hope that that would be the one thing that they would stand out. Not that, oh man, they got great players or, oh, they really know how to hit and run, but no, man, what, what they do is they come at you together. So relentlessly and so consistently that they never let you up. And my deal was that you get ahead and then you suffocate your opponent with pitching and defense
Tracy Smith:
And yep.
Pat Casey:
Well,
Tracy Smith:
Well, and along that line, this, you and I have talked about this privately, but maybe it’s, but you’re right about that. Like you, I know competing against you like your teams, you, you, you knew going into it, what the expectation was that what we were gonna, what you were gonna face in that other dugout, but like even some of the subtleties. And I think it’d be interesting cuz I’ve asked you about this, but like even your position in the dugout at the other end of the dugout, you know, why, why why’d you do that? Like why you do that?
Pat Casey:
Well, I did that because for me, I believe that practices are for coaches and games are for players. And I had a really hard time standing there when the guy would walk by the OnDeck circle and strike out and come to put his bat in and not have something to say about, well, we talked about his slider being out of the zone, you know, <laugh>, and it’s not like the poor guy doesn’t know that. So it really helped me have them believe that when I tell them I trust him that I do trust him and I’m away from that a little bit. And so I get it, you know, the guy isn’t trying to strike out, he’s not trying to swing in a bad pitch, but hu being human and competitive, if you’re standing right next to somebody, you usually say something
Tracy Smith:
Guilty.
Pat Casey:
Yeah. And I, yeah, me too. That’s but you’re better than me cause I couldn’t stay there. I I, to move to the other end. So, and it also allowed me to you know think about the game as a whole, a little bit more maybe instead of really focusing in, on that kid, coming back from a good, bad, or a bad at bat. It allowed me to, to kind of look at the play ahead maybe or what we’re gonna do the next thing, defensively or pitching, but you know, we, we, we, we won games in practice. We, we created a practice that was in my opinion, that had an intensity level that you couldn’t wait to get to the game so that you could, could just play and show people what, what you can and can’t do. And there is a balance in baseball because it’s so long that, you know, there’d be certain drills that would be real high in intensity for a short period of time.
And then you go something where you could relax a little bit. But I, I just a hundred percent believe in, in, in practice. I think you win there. I think when you learn to understand and value every minute, then you know, ultimately how to respect the hour, you know, right. What can you get done in an hour is amazing. If you believe that one minute can change anything in a game and 30 seconds can change anything that happens in one minute and 15 seconds, you can control the next step bat by what’s in your mind. And so our, our motto was you can’t change the man until you change the mind. And we had a bunker mentality and I think people relate that sometimes wrong. I think they look at it as, oh man, they’re regimented, oh man. They’re, you know, no, that’s not it at all.
What it is is actually when you trust that a kid can take that thing across the white lines, with the tenacity that you respect, then you let ’em play. Cuz not always are good things gonna happen, but if they don’t, if you don’t trust them and they don’t trust you, then you’re, then you continually interfered during the game as to what you’re doing. And pretty soon they’re gonna go, come on, coach, man, we worked on this in practice. I just happen to not get to where I was supposed to be or whatever. So and I’m, I’m guilty of doing that. And, and so like I said I’ve told players this before. I got a guy playing in the big leagues for me right now. And he came in and asked me what he needed to do to play every day. And I said, well, that’s kind of hard for me to believe that you need to ask me that question cuz you come to practice every day and you know what you need to do to play every day. And the one thing we talk about more than anything is our belief system. And when you start believing that you’re gonna be as good as I think you’re going be, then you don’t have to worry about playing every day. All you gotta worry about is what color in I used to write that lineup gonna be. But I mean here again, it was not anything that he was doing physically. It’s just, he had doubt lose time.
Tracy Smith:
Your comment about just maybe your comment about games or for the, you know, practice is what we’re doing. Games are for the players reminding me of full, you know, old Bobby Knight kind of, that was the whole thing. I, I had a good fortune of watching some of those practices, the intensity and it almost this UN this coincident segue here, cuz I was gonna ask you and I think about this all the time myself. So you coaching at George Fox. And so do you remember Butch Carter, the old Indiana basketball player and then absolutely. He played in the NBA and then, and so Butch takes the job at at that time he took his first head coaching job with Toronto Raptors with Vince Carter. And I had the good fortune of watching Butch coach, my brother-in-law Greg coach, high school basketball and in Middletown, Ohio.
And he took a bunch of football players. Now Greg was a basketball player, but took a bunch of football players and they did a great job and they beat some of the O kills academy and some of the top programs, but where I’m going with this was, I remember I was riding with Butch we’re up in Toronto, I’m up there visiting him. And I asked him the question, this is the, you know, young, naive Tracy Smith. I said, Hey man, like, gosh, darn, now you’re co you go from this and now you’re coaching in the NBA. I, I was like, so what do you, what do you, how do you like, what are the practices like now in the NBA, whatever, whatever he’s like, Tracy, I do the same techniques. I teach the same thing that I did at Middletown high school back in, you know, back in the day.
And I just thought it was interesting. And that’s what I wanted to ask you about George Fox. Like I think me, I was thinking you had to change and be totally different, treat these guys different way, get away from your core principles because you’re at a high level now. That’s what I was getting to on the, like you and Jordan, those same principles apply at Oregon. I think people think or assume when I was guilty of it too, that you have to create this whole nother alternative reality, every level you go up when really. So I’d be curious on your thoughts on that. Like, were you, do you coach the same way at Oregon statement you winning national championship division one level as when you were there? I’m sure there’s differences, but what’s the difference in that?
Pat Casey:
Well, the difference is that I, I think what you’re looking to is absolutely correct. I say this all the time, you could go to a, a little league practice and find a coach. That’s teaching the fundamentals of throwing a baseball very well or bun. And those fundamentals are very, very consistent and there are things in the game, in my opinion, that should never change. But there’s things that are always in flux. And what changed for me was the fact that if I was gonna be an effective leader, I had to be a lifetime learner cuz great leaders never quit learning. And so I became a better coach and coached somewhat differently from the pro from the aspect of how I was able to communicate. Maybe how I was able to articulate maybe how efficiently we could do things. We might be doing a drill that George Fox, of course you had six balls.
So you had to wait till that everyone’s got in, you know, make, Hey, you need those balls to finish the drill, you know? And anyway for example we run the same bunt defenses at Oregon state that we ran at George Fox. Okay. Exact same bunt defenses, but how we changed in how we practiced. So those became completely different because of my learning experience in game. And that is that in games when you run, when you run a drill in practice, you run it maybe. And there are things you should do repetitiously, but if you run a, let’s just say you run a basic bunt drill and you say, we’re gonna run this for three minutes. You just run it and you run it again. Right? Well, that’s not what happens in game. You get one shot at it. So what we do is we react to what we did on that bun defense.
If, if we threw the ball and bounced it in the dirt at first, now you got guys at first and second, you’re in a completely different button defense. If the guy gets the third. Now your first and third, the catcher has to come out and give you the first and third. So we took our short game defense and evolved it into a game setting to where you could rerun in three or four different defenses in our package instead of just saying, okay, everybody’s you know, the pitch is over there playing grab ass, 15 of ’em stand along the line and your turns next and you run out there, you know, and oh, I know we’re running, you know, Bundy two. Well, no, it’s not like that. Now you gotta pay attention cuz you gotta know who’s on first. You gotta know what the else are.
You gotta know what happened to play before. Like it changed what we did and we even got better than that, where we even created chaos. And so in other words, first and third guy standing there and he comes set, I might call Bach and he’s like B I B, sit there and argue with me. You can’t do that in the game. The coach gets to do that. I’m the coach, you know, and gets pissed off, man. He’s not thinking, well, let’s go. What happens when things go upside down? So that’s how that evolved, but you’re a hundred percent, right? I think that when you get your tail down to play defense in basketball and cut your man off and getting to the rack, it’s the same in high school, college or professional basketball. And so it just a matter of how much it means to you to keep him from getting to the rack.
And that’s the same. It is in baseball. You can put a bun on and I had a rule about how we sacrificed bun and I let you have the freedom to drag bun any way you possibly could. As long as it was effective, sacrifice bun was uniform. We’re gonna do it the same way every guy. Why is that? Why is that? Because I think that that’s a, I think that you have to have some things that are unique to your system that create a discipline that you fall back on and bun. The baseball is a very basic thing. They even tell you we’re gonna call it sacrifice.
So, so don’t worry about how I ask you to do it. Cause you’re giving yourself up right? There is no there. So, so we’re gonna do it one way. And that way I know my three hitter, Trevor ick, or I know my one hitter you know, whoever it may be, Aaron Matthews, they’re all gonna want the same way so that we don’t screw up the sacrifice drag different story. You’re trying to get a hit man. I’m okay. If you can stand on your head and drag, go for it. But the sacrifice, that’s a team thing. And I think the guy recognizes that that’s sitting in the dugout that wants to play that says, Hey man, athlete, Ruman sacrifice. Just like I would sacrifice if I’m saying, yep, that’s how you build that unity. That’s how you make the respect for your teammate. And, and we had one or two rules as far as our appearance.
That was it. I wasn’t people look at our club and think of, we are extremely disciplined because maybe that I was you know, very, very strict firm with them. No man. The, the standards of, by which we lived by and which we played by, we all sat in a room and said, Hey, how many guys wanna lose this year? No, I didn’t see anybody raise their hand. How many guys wanna win this year? Hey, everybody raise their hand. Okay. Let’s start talking about winning. How, how do we win? And then out of that discussion of humanity becomes this complex nonsense of all the shit that happens in baseball, right? Well, if we hit three 10 and if we have an all base percentage of three 70 and if our era I go, well, that’s all great, man. But that’s just a direct result of what we’re committed to.
Tracy Smith:
Mm-Hmm that? I notice you use the word standard too.
Pat Casey:
Absolutely not rule.
Tracy Smith:
Yeah,
Pat Casey:
Absolutely. And, and I mean that about standards, you’re, you’re vested in what you do if you’re part of the discussion, but when a guy walks in and puts the thing up on the board and says, all right guys, you know, and for me, for me, not anybody else. And there’s been guys that have done this thing better than me by thousand times. And they have their own ways doing it for me. I always thought it was better when we talked about why we didn’t do something the way that we talked about when they were they’re, they’re the ones that helped make the decision. You know, if I told a kid, Hey man, I think that you need to hit, you know, three 40 and, and, and field 9 92 and steal 20 bags, you know, and he might be out there struggling saying, well, shit, that, wasn’t my, excuse me, that wasn’t my, that was you telling me that I could do that. So I, I just think a common purpose eliminates ego. I think ego gets in the way of success. And I think that individualism certainly gets in the way of overall production.
Tracy Smith:
You, it’s funny, you just did like the illustration of a little bit of who you are. It’s funny cuz I, you know, again, back to your national championships and everybody’s, Hey man, you know, pat Casey and then I’ll and I’ll get questions about, Hey, what’s, what’s he like? And we’ve gotta know each other. And so I’m actually looking over here as we’re doing the interview of the couch, that we’ve sat on a couple times and had a beer in our hand and a cigar and, and I, and I, and those are always fun for me because I, I would summarize it like this. I would always say, you know, the cool part about pat or case is, but I said is that he just has this way of making stuff really simple. You know, like you talk about these things and we, we sometimes make life so difficult and the complexities of it. And that’s why I said, I, I think if people spend time with you, you it’s profound statements, but they’re really not profound statements. It’s just like you get back to the simple and then you walk away going, you know what that really makes sense and what you just said there about, you know, even the Bunning and how and why you do it. It may seem insignificant, but there’s a bigger meaning behind. I mean,
Pat Casey:
That for me is so that’s exactly right. That, and for me, like I said, that was in, in, in, in maybe my inability to work in this, in this tech world, in this complexity of it and all things that are really important. I still have a profound belief that everything happens behind the uniform and, and, and, you know, that’s the, that’s the guy that’s buttoning it up. And so, you know, great leaders find a way to get greatness out of their players or out of their their soldiers or out of their employees. Great leaders don’t sit around and talk about how great they are. And you know, we spend a lot of time working on things that people would be shocked at how, how, how important they become to us because of someone else on the team. And, you know, if you, if you give somebody a task you give a guy, a shovel, one guy will dig a grave. Another guy will dig a well, you know, and
Tracy Smith:
See, there you go again, you’re doing it again,
Pat Casey:
But I mean, isn’t it true? So in other words, yes, if you make, if you, if you just say, Hey, we’re gonna practice for two and a half, three hours a day, I don’t know what the rules are anymore, but you, it can be, it can be just a, a long drawn out and not in this deal. If there isn’t a reason or a purpose behind that, other than yourself just that’s just, and you’re right. I think genius in anything you do is finding the way to not only teach it, but to, to, to go ahead and execute it in, in its simplest form. I mean, there’s not anybody that I’ve ever followed in coaching that didn’t say things that were so just like hit you like a lightning rod, but were so simple once you heard them. I mean, you know, it’s like, you know, and, and then other guys stand up and talk about the, you know, I mean, Hey, we’ve got, we got seven guys that got a launch angle of, you know, 18% or better. So we’re gonna hit, you know, just not sure that I could coach in that world. And yep. So it’s amazing what people will do when they believe and the purpose behind it. And that’s pretty, you know,
Tracy Smith:
Could never be wrong. I mean, that’s the way I look at it. Like,
Pat Casey:
Well, what, you know, if you, if you just look at guys right now, you, for example, you’ve been in a lot of places and we’ve talked about that. We’ve had good times together. We go out and we go, yeah, yeah. You know, case, that’s what I did when I was a kid or whatever. But your conversations with me, there’s always bringing somebody up in your past, whether it be a brother or a friend or a coach that had had some type of significance in your life and never once did I ever hear you say, yeah, this guy took me into the room, was sitting down and looked at this computer screen and started figuring out, you know, this, that or the other. It was always, yeah, that dude nine, you know, he played center field for us or that coach man, he, he, you know, gave me the freedom to go out and recruit whatever it is.
And I do understand the importance of a lot of things in today’s game that are very, and I have deep respect for him. I do. And, and you know, we, we use that stuff as well. I just, I just think that sometimes we miss some of the most important things that are right in front of our eyes, you know? And and for me, that’s always been the, the actual kid that walks into the locker room and then walks out of the locker room. And you know, things are so simple. If you, you know, the one question I have every meeting, the first meeting I ever have is how many hours in a week. And I never had anybody ever come in and know how many hours were in a week when they were a freshman. And the only reason I tell ’em that is not because I want them to understand the mathematics behind that, but understand about the fact that that is the one thing that we all have this, the exact same amount of, so a Ruman had one level of talent and Jimmy Smith might have had another can’t control that, you know, Tracy Smith might be six, three, and Jimmy Smith might be five, eight.
Time is something that they have the exact same amount of. And so there is no advantage for anybody in the room if you understand that. So it’s, that’s why I’m giving you that number so that you understand it because when you come back and figure out how many hours you are required to practice and lift and go to school and study, you’ll understand the amount of time you get to make a decision of how you are gonna create habits in your life, good or bad. And
Tracy Smith:
60, 68,
Pat Casey:
You got it.
Tracy Smith:
I had to do the math, you know, cause I didn’t want you to ask me on camera and then embarrass me right there. <Laugh> no it’s
Pat Casey:
How many hours in a week, you know?
Tracy Smith:
Well, it’s a great point. And it just like, so I, I mean the general question that I was gonna ask you is like, and you answer it in every answer you give, like your, your secret sauce. If you were to kinda, it’s a hard question cuz it’s too, but like what, what would you say your secret sauce that makes you a little bit different
Pat Casey:
Willing to do everything that I ask my players to do. If you’re gonna stand in the rain, I’m gonna stand in the rain. If you’re gonna get out bed at five, I’m getting outta bed at five build a trust with them that I can make mistakes. Let ’em know that I’m gonna make mistakes give them complete and total trust in one another that I have that same belief in them as a team and there’s things I shouldn’t be involved with. You know, that locker room is theirs. You know, I’m gonna come in. And when I come in there, I got something to say, I think it’s gonna be really important. And so I’m not coming in there very often. That’s your sanctuary. We get out between the white lines, we get out between the white lines and there is nobody, there is nobody that’s gonna believe in what we can do more than us. And I, I, I just think that there’s a unity or a bond or a character trait of toughness and maybe a little bit of a will to, to do some things. I’m not a big, a lot of, you know, and there’s just so many things we can have. We can talk forever. I, I just, I think it’s more important. You know, that when man discovers that the difference between his heart and his will, I would say that would be very important to me.
Tracy Smith:
Yep. I agree with that. So yeah, we could talk forever on this. I, so I I’ll ask another question on this and we’ll transition a little bit about our venture that we’re working on together. But like, I, I always like this one, cause I think about it myself and how we evolve. But if you can go back to that young and first of all, you were telling me how big you were back when you were young, but I just cracks me up when I think about that. If you go back and tell that young pat Casey way back when you started your career, like what advice would you use now and what you’ve learned, some of the key things over the, over the time that you would tell that young, when that maybe would cut that learning curve? Cause I, I, I hope some of the, the, the folks that are watching this, you know, some young coaches or whatever, appreciate, you know, you and the knowledge, the experience and your, and what I love about you is you are about as normal, a human being as there is, which I love, like what would be something that you could tell that young pat Casey, that maybe you wish you had, that that would cut that learning curve?
Pat Casey:
Well, you know, young the mistakes I made when I was young are playing minor league baseball from 21 to 28 were confusing competitiveness with, with maybe common sense. I don’t know. I, I, I I didn’t have a lot of patience maybe, or a lot of respect for the process. I would guess when I was playing, I just played I wasn’t fortunate enough. I never saw myself on tape playing at a baseball game until I was probably, you know, in triple a or double a, I don’t know. I never, we didn’t have high school video. I didn’t, I, I played three sports, which I’m glad I did. I wish kids would do it now, but probably just a better understanding. I, I didn’t understand what it meant to be a professional, you know, I just wanted to play and have a good time.
You know, I tell my guys all the time <laugh> I said, listen, I played in Virginia as far as east is Virginia and in California and in Canada and in south America. So I have been, I’ve been in every bar between those and I promise you one thing, they’re all gonna still be selling beer when you’re outta college. So just go ahead and, you know, slow down a little bit. But I was never a bad guy ever. I just wasn’t anybody that ever you know, really had planned, you know, when I was playing, I just played and I wish I’d better. I wish I would understood it better. I wish I had more respect for the game. I wish I’d had been more coachable. I think sometimes some of your greatest strengths are some of your greatest weaknesses, you know, and the lack of discipline probably of how, you know, I never, we didn’t have weights.
You know, my senior year in 1977 in high school, they came in with a universal gym and the basketball coach said, you know, basketball players, can’t lift. I never lifted any weights in my life. And so I, I didn’t have a regimen of that. We didn’t have batting cages, so I didn’t have a regimen of that. It just, it was just different, you know I would never forget this. I was in the locker room with John crook leaving. It must have been double a and a last game and I packed my stuff in there and still had the clay on the bottom of my shoes. I was in the Texas league when I went to spring training, I unpack that same bag the next year and had the same dirt on there. I never, you know, you didn’t fly to Arizona and work out you didn’t.
I was living in, in Newberg, Oregon, you know, I played city league basketball and, and, and had a good time. And, you know so I, I wish I’d had a lot better understanding of the game and, and what I could have done with the game. But in, in, in now that I can tell you, maybe it’s the best thing that ever happened to me. I, I, I got to coach, I got to learn, I got to be around players. It inspired me. And you know, to, to this day, to this day the first guy that I ever recruited he went down to Oregon when, when, when we won a milestone game, I think it was like number 1000 in my career or some, some this guy’s name’s Frank walk. He’s the first guy I ever recruited for me, that’s way more important than me ever getting hit in the big leagues. And you know so I, I would just say that there’s a lot of things I, I wish I’d had done differently. Not sure that if I would’ve changed those, I’d be in a better spot that I am today. Right. But I’m not one of those guys that ever says, oh, I would never change anything. You know, people say, Hey, I, I, I had a great career. I’d never change anything. I would, I would I’d change. I wish I could change a lot of things I did in my career playing and coaching.
Tracy Smith:
Yeah. <laugh>
Yeah, me too. Well, perfect. You know, kind of segue into you, the platform and, and that we’re on, and we’ve both chosen to be a part of this adventure with the agents. And so I guess I would just ask you and you out more hopefully. Why, why, why what’s the main reason you involved in what we’re doing together at this point in our careers with the diamond allegiance?
Pat Casey:
Well, I, I think, you know how this started with me, as far as the diamond agents, you brought me into it when it was basically just the foundation and, you know, Sandy wanted to sand yard, wanted some people on that board that would help with what he was doing. And that is to help young kids get involved with baseball, stay involved, and this in particular, those kids that couldn’t be involved. And when you coach at the division one level you, you have a lot of work to do, and you’re really concerned with division one guys. And when you go out and watch kids play you watch division one guys, and you don’t go to a lot of places where kids just play for the fun of it or kids or kids can’t afford it. And so I was happy to be on the foundation.
You know, the foundation piece was awesome to me and just being on the advisory board. And I don’t know who took that and, and morphed it into what it’s was gonna be with the diamond allegiance. But when you guys shared that, Hey, we want to continue to do what we’re doing on the, on the foundation piece. But we think we can help a lot of kids across the country. And in order to do that, we’re gonna have to create a model that allows us to interact with, with young kids. I just thought, man, what a great way for me to give back you get into your world of coaching and you know, get to spend a lot of time with that. And, and I, I honestly could go to west Delaware, Iowa, and, and recruit, you know, a kid on the farm town and watch him play and have just a good of time as I could going down to long beach and Washington area codes.
And so I just think for me, that’s a, a great way for me to give back. I wanna see kids that are sitting there trying to make a choice, and that is, do I give up baseball? Do I start watching a lot more TV and playing a lot more video games or doing a lot more things that may not be as productive as to where a great game of baseball can get me, whether it’s building relationships. And so I’m inspired as much about the guy that’s that fringe D one guy and helping him maybe say one word to him. I had a guy that’s with us right now that just called me one of our, one of our teams that’s with us, their, their owner called me the other day and asked me some advice on a kid that was looking for some help with the mental part of the game.
And I just thought that’s super cool. And but, but I, but I just think that the one thing that I, I really long for, and that is to see this allegiance make a difference. You know, the decisions kids choose to, to maybe something they didn’t have that opportunity. So in other words, if we can help two kids that could have never afforded through this allegiance say, Hey, I got a scholarship to go play for, you know, the Jack rabbits, and I’m gonna play baseball this summer. And he plays baseball and discovers that, Hey, I might be able to go to junior college or, Hey, I met a guy that his dad owns a, a business that I really wanna work in, whatever it may be. I just think we spend too much time inside those four walls thinking about what am I gonna do when I’m, you know, 78 and hell who knows where they’re gonna be here, I’m 78.
And so you know, if we don’t inspire our youth, we’re gonna, we’re gonna pay for the consequences and therefore I’m involved. But from, from that standpoint, I love the game of baseball, baseball is such a big part of my life. I don’t want to give that up. So maybe there’s a, there’s a part of it for that, that feeds me. But I long to see kids understand what this great game can give. And, and also to, to, to, we got so many plans in the works to help offset some of the costs from the families. You know, right now I wanna see families go see their kid play. I, I just think it’s hard when some family has to sit there and say, Hey, you know, we can go to two. We can’t go to that third one.
We can’t afford it. Maybe we can do some things that help there. But you just think about organizations. I don’t care if you got 500 kids within your organization, 300 or a thousand, if you affect five kids out of 500, and those five kids get married and have a family, you think about how many kids are gonna be affected over the lifetime of that decision. And even if you only get five outta, you know, that’s, that’s a, that’s just being conservative. I think that’s a big part of what we’re we’re doing. And of course the tech piece of what we can present that helps facilitate the things these coaches are doing. And the, the things that kids need to have at their at their accessibility to, to advance in the game. And I think advancing, like I said, I, I, I, I will be just excited about the guy that never thought he’d make the high school team that made it guy that never thought he’d go to college. That goes to an AI or three year yep. Guy that never thought he was gonna be a, a D one that becomes a D one, the guy that never thought he was gonna big, big league, that becomes a big league. I think that that that’s that’s for me is, was what’s pretty cool. And, and then trying to inspire coaches to understand what our roles are as coaches and how important it is that we, we advance and, and create and, and nurture future leaders of, of, of our country.
Tracy Smith:
So what would you say, what would you, as we’re out talking these, the organizations, the organization heads and those that does when they ask the question, like, so you’re saying pat Casey would really take an interest and help us. And, you know, he he’d really come out and see our kids and talk to our kids. What would you say to that? Cause I,
Pat Casey:
I absolutely would, you know, and I’m two places at one time, but you know what I, I, you and I have talked about that. You’ve probably heard me say that four or five times, Hey, Tracy, you know, I’m, I’m good. And I do understand that everything we’re doing my piece is the piece that, you know, you know, send me to, to, to Texas to sit there and, and sit with an organization for a day and a half or two days and watch ’em work out and talk to ’em. And that, that, that’s what I would like to do. I mean, that, that, that’s certainly a big part of it. You know, I, I just, I just really it’s hard when you sit up in this little corner and people, I mean, even if you, and, and I could say that about Connecticut or, or Texas, or, but people don’t really know you, you know, it’s funny, the first time I met Rito, you know, I was a player playing against Fullerton and he was the coach in 1979.
And we were in a regional in Fresno and they won and won the whole thing. And I was a player and I was just like, oh man, you know, we’re playing Fullerton, you know, and blah, blah, blah. And, you know I never got the chance to coach against Tim early because that’s just, wasn’t the way it was. And I went off, played eight years and he’s moved around with Illinois, Texas. And the first time I met him I was just blown away about, you know, he is just like, I just going this guy’s just like me, man. We’re just talking baseball. It’s like, he’s you guys ran that relay the other day I saw on TV, you know, I’m just wondering why you trailed with, you know, I’m just laughing going, you know, I had this picture in my mind that, you know, this guy wouldn’t talk to anybody. His ego was so big and, you know, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And he was just a great guy. And I think it’s the same there. I don’t think people really have a great perception of a lot of coaches when the only time you see him is in uniform.
Tracy Smith:
Right.
Pat Casey:
You know, or players, you know, I had a player that’s was a first rounder and I had a scout tell me, oh, you know, case he’s got a, he’s got a really bad attitude. And this is where I think that I’ll really help because I think I get to know the player or the, or the organization, but he’s got, he’s cocky. He’s got a bad attitude, you know, he’s, he’s, I’m sure he is a guy that, that comes in late at night. I said, well, let me tell you the guy’s a 4.0 student. He doesn’t drink his hobby is to raise funds for children’s Christmas deal at, at his hometown. He works at St. Vincent DEPA and I get it. He’s he’s, he’s got his, you know, he’s got his sunglasses flipped backwards and he’s, you know, styling. And sometimes he doesn’t, you know, so I just, the misperception of who he
Tracy Smith:
More to the story.
Pat Casey:
Yeah. What’s that,
Tracy Smith:
There’s more to the story or what, what, what would, what would Paul Harvey always say and the rest of the story? Yeah. Whatever Paul Harvey would always say,
Pat Casey:
That’s the rest of the story. Yeah.
Tracy Smith:
But
Pat Casey:
Yeah, no. And I just had to convince that guy that, Hey, look, it, he may appear that way, but I’m with him every day. And yeah, he does, he does get upset with himself really hard on himself. And my job for him was completely and told just to have him understand how he was being perceived. He ended up being a first rounder. And so I just think those things are, are right up my alley, cuz I, I was, you know, I had, I had plenty of people that probably thought I was jackass when I was playing, you know, and I probably was. And so just, just things like that are important to me. I don’t really have a, I’m not zeroed in on exactly what my role is with the allegiance other than the fact that I think that I, as I’ve looked at it from, from two or three different lenses and felt like that I wanted to be involved with the game. I wanted to be involved with people. I want to be involved with helping people. It was just a tremendous opportunity for me. And so I’m just, you know, that’s, that’s how I look at it.